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18 December 2010 @ 09:09 am
6.11 Appointment In Samarra: I Screwed Up The Whole ‘Natural Order’ Thing  
6.11 Appointment In Samarra: I Screwed Up The Whole ‘Natural Order’ Thing
Dean makes a wager:
One day as Death for Sam’s soul.
He loses – but wins. 
  Read the rest ...Collapse ) 
I have great hope for the rest of the season, come the new year. Until then, keep rewatching!

Current Music: "Dust In The Wind" by Kansas
arafel979 on December 19th, 2010 02:14 pm (UTC)
I'm kind of hoping that Death was talking about both of their souls when he referred to the strength and resiliency of the human soul. Sam's soul and hell experience seemingly taking center stage right now, shouldn't negate the fact that Dean dealt with his hell w/o the buffer of a "wall" and more importantly, basically all on his own; and all the while, continuing to watch out for Sam and hunt.
bardicvoice: ChristmasTime by <lj user=ellie_fo_20>bardicvoice on December 21st, 2010 08:18 pm (UTC)
I believe Death was speaking of ALL souls, and in no way was he making a value judgment between the brothers. Nothing he said denigrated Dean's own pain or minimized his strength. I think Death's comment was meant at least in part as reassurance to Dean, whose greatest fear - as always - was for Sam's well-being. After hearing everyone, including Death, agree that Sam's more than a year as Michael's and Lucifer's whipping boy would be too much for anyone to endure and emerge sane, I think Dean really needed some basis for hope that Sam could survive even when his band-aid wall inevitably comes down. Dean can look to his own experience to see how close to the edge of no return he skated, trying to deal with his own memories of Hell; he has to be imagining now how much worse off he'd have been had his stay in Hell been as long as Sam's, and feeling the fear of losing his brother through the very act of getting him back.

Dean's my personal poster child for the strength of the human spirit, no question. :)
Sue: J2 Christmas2candygramme on December 20th, 2010 03:39 am (UTC)
Julian Ritching has been a hero of mine since the days of his portrayal of "Mr. Camier of The Cleaners" in Once a Thief. The man is brilliant, and this is the role he was born to play. I am with you. I hope someday to fangirl him as he deserves.
bardicvoice: ChristmasTime by <lj user=ellie_fo_20>bardicvoice on December 21st, 2010 08:20 pm (UTC)
Ooh - I may need to seek that out. I simply can't imagine anyone else playing Death; Richings will forever be my image of Death embodied.

Have a wonderful holiday season, my friend!
(no subject) - candygramme on December 21st, 2010 09:17 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bardicvoice on December 21st, 2010 10:03 pm (UTC) (Expand)
fannishliss: firebird!fannishliss on December 20th, 2010 03:04 pm (UTC)
You've done a great job with untangling this whole thing. I think the parts about how the natural order has been screwed up around Sam and Dean are really really important, and you lay it out beautifully.

One implication of their existing outside the natural order explains why Anna went from being their ally to trying to stop their conception.

.... And, if they do exist OUTSIDE the natural order, it might also explain why they figure so large in "what is written" -- yet at the same time they're able to rewrite it. It makes them not just agents of free will, but *exemplars* of free will. Kind of nifty!!

I left the episode with the strongest feeling that the moral was "Sam and Dean must die." D: DO NOT WANT!!

Maybe you saw the kind of weird speculation on whether they are alphas? Well, I guess, maybe not alphas as such -- but not entirely human either. With all the times they've died and come back, they're almost like immortals ... and their decisions have ramifications, as Death said, on a global scale. SAM AND DEAN ARE OUR SPECIAL BUTTERFLIES!!!

It's kind of nice where this puts us for hiatus... still worrying about purgatory and alphas... but at least Sammy's soul got out of hell.... and maybe Adam's was never locked up -- perhaps released by the incident with the holy fire molotov cocktail?

Anyways, MANY MANY THANKS to you once again. I swear, you should get them to let you publish all this once the saga is complete. I like the season companions very well, but the thought and insight you put into these is very much appreciated.

bardicvoice: ChristmasTime by <lj user=ellie_fo_20>bardicvoice on December 21st, 2010 09:50 pm (UTC)
Oh my heaven; now I can't escape the image of Dean and Sam with butterfly wings with the caption: Chaos Theory Personified!! Talk about sensitive dependence on initial conditions ...!!

I may yet collect all my ruminations under one cover someday, just absent the episode summaries. Wouldn't actually need any permission for that! Be kinda fun to see however many semesters of Supernatural University reflecting the seasons of the show ... although to do that, I'd technically have to write up season one, which I never did save in terms of later references to earlier episodes. Hmmm ... food for thought. :)

Here's a fun possibility: what if Sam and Dean have effectively initiated a new "natural order," one in which their peculiar conditions of existence would become a norm and a keystone, not an aberration? Now there's a fun thought for you! Best part of that thought is, Sam and Dean might never die ... *grin*

Have a wonderful holiday season!

saltnburnemsaltnburnem on December 20th, 2010 11:15 pm (UTC)
This episode really clinched it for me in terms of Soulless Sam. He can NOT go on like this. He's a sociopath, and I agree that Dean saw that there were few alternatives left. When he went up to Bobby's kitchen, and found Death sitting there, I know I sure was happy to see him!
It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out! The writing crew has done a great job setting it all up. I'm happy Sam has his soul back, but with that wall holding so much back.....that's quite the set-up for nail-biting to come!!
bardicvoice: ChristmasTime by <lj user=ellie_fo_20>bardicvoice on December 21st, 2010 09:53 pm (UTC)
I'm right there with you! The setup for this season took time, but they've tossed enough balls into the air to keep the story running for some time - the possibilities may not be endless, but there certainly are a lot of them, promising much to look forward to. And I say, bring it!

Have a lovely holiday season!
bagginsdvmbagginsdvm on December 21st, 2010 03:31 am (UTC)
I loved this episode too! The guest stars, Jensen, Jared & Jim were superb as usual. Julian Richings is amazing & I would love for him to be a guest at some of the conventions.
The whole destiny vs. free will, disruption of the natural order, who determines the natural order in the 1st place, the Winchesters as a affront to the universe (I knew those boys were special!), the meaning of souls...all this is confusing but utterly fascinating. It certainly gives one much to ponder.
I am very happy that we will have our souled Sammy back & I can't wait for the rest of the season! Thanks for an awesome commentary!
bardicvoice: ChristmasTime by <lj user=ellie_fo_20>bardicvoice on December 21st, 2010 09:58 pm (UTC)
Thanks for coming, and happy you enjoyed! I'm right with you on being pathetically glad our Sam will be back in soul as well as body; I've missed him so badly, even while looking at him, because he wasn't really there.

I would be beyond delighted to see Richings at a con; I'd love to hear from him about portraying Death. That's got to be an incredible job for an actor!

I'm looking forward to writing up the rest of the season. See you then, and until then, have a wonderful holiday season!
sothcwedensothcweden on December 21st, 2010 06:28 pm (UTC)
Very interesting review! I'd never thought about the boys' existence being the first way they'd defied the natural order, but that was a very nice piece of analysis. I'll have to try to keep some of your points in mind as we move forward.
bardicvoice: ChristmasTime by <lj user=ellie_fo_20>bardicvoice on December 21st, 2010 10:00 pm (UTC)
Thank you, and glad you enjoyed! It will be fun to see how far off the mark my ideas truly wind up being ... *grin*

Have a wonderful holiday season!
(Anonymous) on December 22nd, 2010 04:20 am (UTC)
I second the suggestion of a compilation of all your wonderful reviews, Mary. All bound together with a few choice photos; I like!

This episode was my favorite so far this year. I agree with you that Sam's soul may have another part to play in the greater scheme of things. Very exciting!
bardicvoice: ChristmasTime by <lj user=ellie_fo_20>bardicvoice on January 1st, 2011 01:31 am (UTC)
Thanks for coming by and commenting! We'll see about putting that compilation together ... *grin*

Happy New Year!
muffalettamuffaletta on December 24th, 2010 03:39 am (UTC)
Interesting meta- the whole idea of the natural order is quite intriguing, especially with the whole "domino" type of effect.

For me, this episode also brought up the thought provoking theme of Dean's very personal, mentor-student type of relationship with Death. It's not just any human who is on a first name basis with his very own reaper or who can say that Death entrusted them with his job, or that they'd met over junk food to discuss cosmic topics like Lucifer and now, natural order/souls. It's almost as if Death is himself fascinated by this lowly bacterium, who sasses Death even while clearly intimidated and who bluntly speaks his mind to an entity who kills pedestrians for being rude. I'm enjoying how their relationship is evolving and it should be interesting to see in which direction it'll continue to develop over time. And with the value of human souls playing such a big role this season, there's been so much emphasis on Sam's and not a whole lot of talk about Dean's: it was nice to be reminded that, even though Dean didn't spend all those years being tortured by angels in the Cage, Dean is still unique and special in his own way, enough to warrant that level of focused attention from the most powerful being in the universe.
bardicvoice: ChristmasTime by <lj user=ellie_fo_20>bardicvoice on January 1st, 2011 01:30 am (UTC)
Sorry to be so late back to the party; thanks for coming by and commenting!

I am really loving the development of the relationship between Dean and Death; it's nothing short of fascinating, and Jensen and Julian Richings are rocking it big-time! I'm confident we're going to see Death again; I just can't predict what the context is going to be. But it's definitely going to be tasty!