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20 September 2009 @ 11:30 pm
5.02 Good God, Y’All: I Don’t Trust Me, Either  
5.02 Good God, Y’All: I Don’t Trust Me, Either

Castiel seeks God.
War’s sly, murderous deceits
Make Sam see the truth.

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Current Mood: melancholymelancholy
Current Music: "Spirit in the Sky" by Nelson Greenbaum
Zazzazreil on September 22nd, 2009 04:44 am (UTC)
As always I loved your meta. I did think Castiel's reaction to Dean had as more to do with Dean slamming his faith then anything else. Its not an uncommon reaction in the devout, they may accept that you do not believe as they do, but slam their beliefs to their face, try to convince them that they are wrong and you are going to have a whole load of righteous indignation heading your way. To me that scene was more of an Oh yeah knock my faith will you? Let me remind you what your lack of faith got you, you ungrateful idjit! So until you can throw the first stone just keep your opinions to yourself

Grumpy&Chachinodjnopoint on September 22nd, 2009 05:14 am (UTC)
Another excellent meta, Mary. I'm always delighted to read your analysis of each episode. While my mind is going in a certain direction, your thoughts open my eyes to many of the deeper meanings behind the story. Your metas are my in-between SPN fix. :-)

I have a couple of thoughts: We all know Bobby as a loving and long-time family friend, but he is also startlingly knowledgeable hunter. I mean, how did he come into possession of the amulet he gave to Sam so long ago? How does he manage to be the Answer Man in most situations? I find a very interesting allegory with Bobby, considering his day job as owner and proprietor of Singer Salvage and his obvious unconditional love for the boys (as evidenced by his declaration to Sam that he wasn't cutting Sam out. "Not ever.") While I don't think he's God, I do believe there is something more to Bobby Singer than we are being shown.

My next thought has to do with War and his magic ring. War has been a busy boy (he was in Darfur when his "beeper went off"). Job insecurity is nothing he need fear. As long as there is humankind, War will always have a job. And yet, humankind still managed to beat back the Kaiser and Hitler, the Middle East has intermittent bouts of quiet. It makes me wonder if the ring is something he didn't have possession of prior to the Apocalypse, and if the ring makes it easier for War to instill a level of fear, hysteria and mayhem into the general public that he may not otherwise be able to maintain without it.

These are just a couple of random notions, but in any case, thank you again, Mary, for another wonderful analysis. You always make me think. :-)
onemaskedchic on September 22nd, 2009 08:31 am (UTC)
"I do believe there is something more to Bobby Singer than we are being shown."
nod, I'm joining this train of thought with you. Something hasn't set right with me this season with Bobby. To me it seems that Bobby lied to Castiel in the hospital room when he says "he had no such thing". I've watched the episode four times and it gets more obvious each time - or I am just getting more suspiscious!
Grumpy&Chachinodjnopoint on September 23rd, 2009 02:03 am (UTC)
I think there's something more to Bobby; I'm just not sure Bobby knows there's something more to Bobby, or how he came into possession of such an object and if he understands how he was compelled to give the amulet to Sam for John (and ultimately for Dean).

This further makes me wonder about Sam's role in the grand scheme -- if Sam's gifting of the amulet was in some way a divine selection and bestowment of responsibility upon the person who would save humanity. And why would God (if whomever saved the boys was God) have spared Sam after all this unless there was something meaningful about Sam's existence that is yet to be revealed? Why has the idea of "Saving Sam" been so paramount from almost the beginning.

Tons of thoughts rolling around in my brain. Must make tea, then sleep. :-)
karenmiller: W1karenmiller on September 22nd, 2009 06:40 am (UTC)
Oh yes, and another thought. My feeling is that Castiel's attempt to warn Dean in The Rapture came hard on the heels of his finding out what Zach's game plan was. He was too shaken and distraught for him to have been sitting on that for a while. He found out, he freaked out, and ran straight to Dean. That's my feeling. And then, after being crushed in Heaven, his courage failed him and he began to deny his own conscience to toe the party line. And it was only when Dean called him on that choice, when Dean begged him to help him, that he jumped off the cliff and unfortunately got smashed to bits on the rocks below.

I think his lashing out at Dean was a combination of truth and transference. And I think it's interesting that he didn't lash out at all until Dean dissed God, yet again.
(Anonymous) on September 22nd, 2009 09:21 am (UTC)
comments from scifimouse
Dean's amulet thing made me feel the same way as you. on the one hand, hooray for finally having an answer about what it does and what it is, on the other hand, it just seems like too much of a coincidence.

but I was thinking about it later, and I wondered, what if it WASN'T anything special when Bobby gave it to Sam? what if it really was just a trinket at that point? but then, because it was given in love, from Bobby to Sam and then given in love again from Sam to Dean. and then worn by Dean for years - not as a fashion statement but out of love. maybe it is supposed to be a reference to the whole "God is love" concept and maybe because it has only ever been used for love - perhaps THAT is what makes it special now.

the way Castiel talked about it doesn't quite fit with my theory because he implied that the power was more innate to the amulet. but he didn't say for sure how the amulet got the power......so.......who knows?

just a thought.

btw, it was really great to meet you at the convention. I still haven't had time to go through all my pictures and all that, but the picture of you and my stuffed mouse came out really good. I'm planning on putting my pics up on photobucket, so when I do, I'll drop by and give you a link. I got some really adorable ones of the boys with my mouse, you HAVE to see them! :)

(Anonymous) on September 22nd, 2009 09:40 am (UTC)
Re: comments from scifimouse
I just read all the other comments and realize several other people mentioned this theory about the amulet being powerful because of love.

and here I thought I was so clever and original. :)

oh well. at least it's nice to know others share my viewpoint on the matter. *giggles*

Charissapatronus01 on September 22nd, 2009 03:55 pm (UTC)
Greetings Professor!

I think it goes without saying that I'm really excited to be gettin back in the swing of things with a new season and lots of things to talk about!

I found your comments about Dean rushing to save Sam, then giving up, and him eventually giving Cas the amulet interesting. I had read the obvious in them, that they spoke of his love for Sam, but I hadn't taken it that step farther. I think you're right. It shows that Dean has had to face the reality, that sometimes he has to put others before Sam. He has grown a lot. I think it still shows that Sammy's #1 on his mind, but that that may not be good in a hunt.

I totally agree with you about the lesser-scale of the apocalypse. While it's true it's mostly about budget, I also think that has actually worked in our favor. Sometimes less really is more, and in this case it works. As you pointed out, without the big showy effects we're able to focus more on the people than the events, which has a much great impact.

I love how they portrayed War in this episode. Only Kripke and Co. would have thought to have him driving a Mustang. I can't wait to see how they portray the other three horsemen (I'm assuming we'll get to see them at some point this season!)

This was a great episode. And while I'm not happy about the boys splitting up, I agree with you that in the end it will probably be better for both of them. Hopefully when they come back together they will be stronger and more able to trust eachother. I also hope that reunion doesn't take long!
sophie_deangirlsophie_deangirl on September 22nd, 2009 03:56 pm (UTC)
Long time no see

Sorry I've been away. Summer was a hiatus for me and I needed to rest up for this awesome season. For some reason, also, I'm not getting the alerts for your posts so I'll need to check that. I saw your review in Supernatural.TV and that reminded me.

As always, your analysis was wonderful and I quiet literally agree on every point as I always so. We are so on the same page and of course you know that I never get tired of your Dean love. It tickles me no end. I agree that Dean is maturing, coming to terms with his role as leader of whatever human band of warriors he'll need to command to defeat Lucifer and stop the Apocalypse and more importantly he's doing it without his baggage of self-worth issues. One scene I LOVE that I forgot to mention in my blog was Dean's conversation with Ellen about his instincts telling him to call Bobby or talk to Sam. He admits to his dependency in the past of those "crutches" in his life, but this is the first time we've seen him face things on his own and figuring things out without those crutches. It was AMAZING! I am LOVING this evolution of Dean.

Thanks as always for bringing such wonderful insight.
janiebee64 on September 22nd, 2009 05:56 pm (UTC)
Good God Ya'll
I really have very little to say this time, because I agree with all you have said. Two things that stick out. One: The book of Revelation is about the time after the rapture when the Lord comes back and takes Christian's home(heaven). It will not be a big bang and the world is over, but it will be a slow process over 7 years and the destruction of earth and mankind. Kripke and co. are displaying this as Revelation states it. Two: I loved the ending and how Dean offered Sam the Impala. This was Dean's way of saying "I Love you, and want to be there to help you through this but can't." I also believe it was his way of protecting and caring for Sam, knowing he couldn't actually be there to do it. This gave me hope that at some point they will be together again and be stronger for it. I look forward to the next 2 episodes. I think we are going to see some growth on the part of both Sam and Dean, and especially Sam fighting those demons within himself. Thank you for your review!! It was insightful and you always put my thoughts into words and do it so much better than I ever could. I look forward to your review for the next 2 episodes.
historylover29historylover29 on September 23rd, 2009 12:33 am (UTC)
I was bored with this episode, and, for the life of me, I don't know why. It was awesome on paper. I have so much love for Ellen, I really enjoy Rufus (yay for Supernatural NOT killing him) and I never minded Jo. The acting was top notch, the script worked... yet I kept watching the clock. And i don't know why.

I was a little annoyed with Bobby. I understand (OK, I don't UNDERSTAND) the reason why he's down, and I laughed at "If you find God, tell Him to send legs!" I understand his depression. But I was wondering when everyone thought they had their own angelic slave who would magically heal him. Although I guess it depends on what actually paralyzed Bobby. If it WAS the angels, then he does have every right to demand that they give him back his legs. If it was from him stabbing himself, the angels didn't do that.

But, Castiel didn't heal Dean when Alistair beat him within an inch of his life in "On the Head of a Pin." Even when Sam was looming over him, barking "Miracle! Now!" No offense to Bobby, but Dean is more important to Cas than he is.

And I'm sad to say that it took me forever to figure out the title. Then I felt really stupid about missing it.

Those were some carvings on Dean's ribs! Wow! That was cool!

I loved that Dean never fought with Sam, AND Dean is growing more independent. Although he wanted to go after Sam after Sam was captured, he didn't. He had more people to think about. Dean's role of protector has now expanded to be more than just Sammy's protector, and I love that! Throughout the whole episode, Dean isn't doing things as Sam expects him to do, as you brilliantly pointed out. I think Sam was even expecting Dean to ask him to stay at the end (awesome scene, by the way. I thought the best scene in this episode), and Dean let him go. He has bigger fish to fry, so to speak. Good for the boys growing up!

Great meta, as always.

yourlibrarianyourlibrarian on September 23rd, 2009 03:35 am (UTC)
However, where Dean has had to face his own inner demons for a long time and acknowledge that they were always a part of him, Sam up to this point had only ever seen his darkness as something apart from himself, something alien that wasn’t really a part of him.

Yes, this. I also think, though it's not spoken of in the episode, that Dean finally voicing Sam's worst fears in Levee and (he thinks) in Lucifer Rising, broke through a barrier. I think he could never face that in himself because to acknowledge it was to make himself a monster in Dean's eyes. Yet Dean has already rejected him without leaving him. I'm not sure how he's processing that, but perhaps that's what he was testing out in the picnic table scene. Did Dean accept him as he was, or would he let him go? I think that their separation is a really good idea for dramatic purposes but I have a feeling it's not going to be so good for them.

I agree about all the implications of things such as War's ring, his mysterious appearance and disappearance, the amulet and so on. I suspect re: the Horsemen that this will in fact be the case. If we look back at M7, the Sins didn't turn out to be particularly well used. On the other hand, maybe they learned from that?

One nitpick: "Phil is the producer and director I most associate with the perfection of music use in the show (could anyone forget his use of Styx’s “Renegade” in Nightshifter" I would have assumed that this was the work of both writer and editor -- as this seems quite likely to have been included in the script, and the effect of fight scenes, such as Rufus' call to Bobby, are at least as much a matter of editing as directing.

The final scene called back strongly and I think deliberately to the closing scene of Children Shouldn’t Play With Dead Things

Funny how so many of us got this impression! Maybe we just don't tend to get many shots of forested hills. But I do think the parallels you pulled out about the huge problems they're facing contrasted with their relative insignificance in the landscape is apt. And so too the helplessness to do anything to help the other.

We didn’t see the usual fire-flare we associate with the knife killing demons, which was a major clue to the boys not actually having been possessed.

Nice point, yes.

And coloring all those actors’ eyes demon-black when they needed to be was an effort on the scale of the storming of the police station in Jus In Bello.

I believe they were all wearing contacts except for the shots where the eyes morph from one to the other. I remember JP answered a question at some point about wearing them.
bardicvoice: Apart by <lj user=raloria>bardicvoice on September 24th, 2009 03:08 am (UTC)
One nitpick: "Phil is the producer and director I most associate with the perfection of music use in the show (could anyone forget his use of Styx’s “Renegade” in Nightshifter" I would have assumed that this was the work of both writer and editor -- as this seems quite likely to have been included in the script, and the effect of fight scenes, such as Rufus' call to Bobby, are at least as much a matter of editing as directing.

Geez, I'm so far behind on responding to comments that it isn't funny, and I can't do yours justice before I fall asleep, but I wanted to speak to this one point. My call-out on Phil Sgriccia and the music runs back to things that both Eric Kripke and Ben Edlund said at the first Comic Con panel, which I was lucky enough to attend. The show's music came up several times, and Kripke said that he and Phil were the major music pickers for the show. A fan asked about the use of "Renegade" in Night Shifter, and Kripke said writer Ben Edlund had written it into the script. Ben, however, instantly threw the credit for how well it turned out to the way that Phil had timed and cut the song into the scenes. It's not just picking the music, but shooting to make it fit and having the vision of exactly how to set it off. Like everything in television, that's the result of collaboration, and Tom McQuade's editing was definitely a part of it, but the production folk by and large toss Phil the lion's share of the credit on how the music gets incorporated. Kripke has also credited him with "The Road So Far" recaps. And that's why he's the one I most associate with how perfectly the music fits when I see something like the music cue blending into an element in the scene in an episode he directed. I definitely don't mean to diss the writers or editors!

Edited at 2009-09-24 03:08 am (UTC)
kinda_temptedkinda_tempted on September 25th, 2009 02:50 am (UTC)
"The thought that the apocalypse isn’t an instantaneous thing but might be happening right now, heralded by natural disasters, wars, pandemics, climate change and the like, and we’re just not noticing, is scary."

^ i whole-heartedly agree. i really like this analysis!
midgetrosiemidgetrosie on October 5th, 2009 12:23 pm (UTC)
Hello, and thank you for this meta and all of the wonderful analysis you have provided over the seasons! As I live in the UK, I am always months behind you in my viewing, and I haven't seen any of this season's episodes (except the second half of 5.02, as explained below), so your summaries and analysis are a lifeline for me! Although I also read other metas when I can, I always feel that I haven't really "seen" an episode until I have read your summary, and I love the psychological analysis that you always provide. Something else that I really appreciate is your production notes, because although I always try to look out for those kinds of things, I always get caught up in the ep (when I eventually see it for real!) and miss them.

However, as I mentioned, I did see the second half of "Good God, Y'All", because I was on holiday in the US last month. I didn't see the first half of the episode or any of 5.03, for which I was also in the country, because the "holiday" was actually my honeymoon, and my new husband (who is very much NOT a Spn fan!) would not have appreciated my planning our activities around a TV show, even one so important to me (perhaps "especially one so important to me", as I think that he probably suspects my motives lie more in watching the pretty boys, than the show itself!). But on Thursday 17 September, when we came back to our hotel room after dinner, he spotted that Spn was on and we watched it together from around the time when Sam had been captured and was having salt poured into his mouth.

Although I loved the (heartbreaking!) ending, and can't wait to see it for real, I have one critical comment on the episode, which has probably been made elsewhere: I was a little disappointed with the denouement of the battle with "War". Not simply because it seems a little simplistic to say that War's power is contained in a trinket, as you have described, but also because I had understood War to be saying that he had not had to actually cause the townspeople to turn on one another; they had done so themselves with minimal intervention from him. That being the case, why would destruction of his ring (or any other action by Sam'n'Dean to take away War's powers, whether permanently or temporarily) have the immediate effect of "the scales falling from the townspeoples' eyes" such that they realised that they should not, after all, be fighting one another?

I realise that one could argue that the hallucination of black eyes could have faded in that moment, but given the fear-driven insanity that had the whole town in its clutches, I would be surprised if that one change would instantly reassure them that they were facing their own neighbour, not a hell-creature.

I have to admit that I felt that this cheapened what was, in my view, a very powerful comment on the human condition: that a malign influence need only sow the seeds of dischord, and humanity is then perfectly capable of destroying itself with little or no assistance. It was one of those occasions, I felt, where there is something of a rush to resolve the problem of the Monster of the Week in order to move to on to the (admittedly very powerful in this case) final discussion between Sam and Dean.

Other than that one complaint, I love Spn, and was disappointed to hear that it will no longer be on "ITV3" in the UK but instead on "Living", a channel that I do not receive. Fortunately, my mother (a fellow fan!) does, and she has kindly offered to record the show for me!

Thank you for "listening" to my probably rather ill-informed views!