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14 September 2009 @ 11:28 am
5.01 Sympathy For The Devil: What I Need Is You  

5.01 Sympathy For The Devil: What I Need Is You


Lucifer walks Earth;

Angels seek the Michael sword.

Trust is hard to find.

 

Read the rest; get a drink first!Collapse )


 

 

 
 
Current Mood: contemplativecontemplative
Current Music: "Sympathy For The Devil" by the Rolling Stones
 
 
 
zofia27: Blinkzofia27 on September 16th, 2009 02:56 am (UTC)
Hey Professor!

I agree that the beginning felt a little rushed/choppy. I'm wondering if they had to cut some stuff out because of time since this ep ran a little longer than most.

Thank you for a reasonable explanation as to why Dean just stood there while Bobby told Sam to lose his number. It was really bothering me.

The whole Dean as Michael's vessel is interesting and I have to say that I'd be dissapointed if Kripke at some point had Dean allow Michael in and that's how the fight against Lucifer was won. One of the best thing's about Dean is that he's always been Dean. He has never been posessed, he makes his own decisions, and he doesn't make apologies for his actons. Also, he's never had any 'powers'. He's always been portrayed as fully human and his willingness to fight the supernatural without any special abilities is a large part of his appeal.

Zazzazreil on September 16th, 2009 06:57 am (UTC)
Wow as always love your meta. I particularly loved the section where you talk about Dean stepping back when Demon Bobby lashes into Sam, because Sam needs to confess his guilt and accept his penance in order to heal. Very insightful and a point I never thought of.

I also agree with you Dean will not over come Lucifer by becoming Michael's "angelic condom" and that it was never God's intent, but rather it is either Zach's misunderstanding or Zack's manipulation of the situation, which now looking back over the series I think has been going on since at least "In the Beginning" if not even before the show began. But where I have a differing view point is that I do think that it is in Dean and Sam's blood to be a potential for a vessel and this is why:

Starting with Lucifer Rising we learn that Azazel is told to find a special child, by the time we get to In the Beginning we know that Azazel is looking for breeders, judging them like a professional might choose the perfect sire or dam. All this to Open the Gate to Hell and kill Lilith? I think not. Rather opening the Gate to Hell and killing Lilith were two more tests of the vessel's suitability to house Lucifer, that began with the demonic dreams and the demonic beauty pageant that was Cold Oak. Rather a lot of work when Lucifer, as we saw can just court and seduce the appropriate human vessel. It almost doesn't seem worth it until you realize what might have happened had not God interfered. Lucifer would have risen and immediately taken Sam as his vessel, no permission involved. Wait you say! That violates all the Supernatural mythology about Angels needing to ask permission that has gone before! But I contend that it hasn't. My theory that should the average person house an angel they would end up pretty holy ash, that it takes a particular blood line, or breed if you will, to hold an angel with out being destroyed and angels that have more power need stronger vessels, as was indicated in Sympathy for the Devil when Lucifer tells Nick that he is a powerful vessel. My theory is that the same strength that makes a person a suitable angelic vessel also makes them able to resist possession. The fact that John was able to resist Azazel, even for a short time suggests that the Winchester boys got their vessel genes from wore than one source. This explains why Dean never has been possessed or contaminated by the Croatoan virus, which I contend is a low level demonic possession and why Sam also was immune.

Part two next

Zaz
Zazzazreil on September 16th, 2009 06:57 am (UTC)
But this leads us to the conundrum of Meg and Sam's possession, if everything I say was true, then why was Sam able to be possessed? The reason goes back to Azazel's deal. Azazel wanted to give Lucifer a strong vessel that he could possess immediately, with out that little problem of getting permission first, and that meant that Azazel had to get that permission for him. When Mary and the others made the deal with Azazel they in essence gave their permission as the child's parent to consecrate the child to Lucifer. I think its no coincidence that the blood dripping has strong parallels to baptism, in a baptism the parents or god parents may be asked if they speak for the child and then they answer all questions for the child, the child is anointed with salt on the lips, and water on the forehead, then a candle is lit and burned from the Easter Candle. In Sam's case he was anointed with Demon blood on the lips and his mother's blood on his forhead before his mother was litwith hell fire, thus consecrated to Satan, his permission for possession was already given. Later after Azazel's Death, Sam might have been able to slowly build resistance, by that time he knew what had happened to him and as an adult he could reject it, but any hope of doing so was lost when he drank Ruby's blood. Drinking her blood was as much about preparing Lucifer's future vessel for being inhabited as it was about convincing Sam that he had the power to take down Lilith. By pulling Sam and Dean on to a plane, and cleansing Sam of Demon blood, it not only allowed Kripke to avoid repeating a part of last season but to continue his theme of free choice. God cleansed Sam both of his mother's mistake and his own, and once again Sam could chose the path he would take.

This leaves the last question, why couldn't Dean understand Castiel or Lucifer for that matter if he was a potential vessel. I contend that the reason is that Dean did not believe, and may still not. And even if he now believes he sure doesn't trust and neither does Sam, which raises the question, if Sam back in season 2 really run in to an Angel, would he have been able to hear and understand it? Unless the demon blood got in the way, I expect so.

Hope this made sense - hmmm maybe I ought to meta this

Zaz
Zazzazreil on September 16th, 2009 01:07 pm (UTC)
And another point in favor of Dean and Sam being special
Dean's blood can trigger the Angelic dispelling symbol. We know that Anna's could and Castiel, but that Dean's could with out being possessed suggests that he is in the same category as Anna and Jimmy. This does not mean that he is more than human but simply that he has the right genetics.

On a different note I didn't catch the hand on the wall continuity slip, though I bet that was an slip part probably due to light and camera location and the actor trying to stay on mark that was not realized until the editing room, where it it was an ooopsie - well nothing we can do about it now. The continuity issue that caught me, was where were the burning wings that we have seen every time angels have been killed previously?

Zaz
(Anonymous) on September 16th, 2009 02:03 pm (UTC)
God bless you, Mary! Thank you so much for your amazing work, your brilliant reviews should be a must-read for every single Supernatural fan.

As always, I totally agree with everything.

You don’t believe Dean really is a vessel for Michael? Oh, I wish to God you were right!
Dean kept saying “no” to Zachariah no matter what, and I think to some degree it was like Alastair’s offer all over again, and the result would be almost the same…

“Still, even across that distance in the dark, Dean looked back and paused, the visual indicator that he wasn’t leaving Sam entirely no matter what he had said” - yes, and it meant so much to me!.. I wish everybody noticed that.

And I’m delighted with how perfectly you nailed it - the brothers will find their way back and emerge stronger and closer than ever before “forging a new balance of brotherhood and love WITHOUT UNHEALTHY CODEPENDENCE”. This is exactly how I feel!!

Vicky
kelioskelios on September 16th, 2009 04:26 pm (UTC)
Awesome, awesome review! You laid everything out so clearly and beautifully :) including something I hadn't realized--that Sam doesn't know that Dean set things in motion. For some reason I thought he did, but now I can't picture the scene where he finds out. Interesting....

And thank you so, so much for not assigning blame or maligning Dean as a horrible, heartless person for not instantly accepting Sam back. I've seen SO MUCH of that lately....In my mind, they are both responsible, to some degree, for what happened and they will both be responsible for fixing it.

Thanks for a great summary, I look forward to reading more!
sophie_deangirlsophie_deangirl on September 22nd, 2009 04:25 pm (UTC)
AWESOME!!!!
REALLY LOVED this and your extensive examination of vessels and angels. It was FASCINATING and just made my heart sing when you emphasized that Dean won't succumb to becoming Michael's vessel. I cheered at this because as I watched Zacariah reveal that fact, I instantly became both intrigued and suspicious. Intrigued because I couldn't see any other way for Dean to defeat Lucifer unless it was through some kind of "conduit", suspicious because the mere idea of Dean not being Dean, of allowing another entity to take him over, more importantly of taking away the very humanness that is the beauty of Dean's character was unthinkable. IIt was then that I hoped that Dean would continue to refuse. Given that Zacariah, Dean's distrust in him well-founded, proposes the idea is even more suspicious so no way would I want him to be seduced by Zacariah.

I LOVED your lines:

"I don’t think Dean is ever going to be Michael’s vessel. "

"You see, I don’t buy Dean’s role as being to step aside from himself to let an archangel use his body to ultimately save the day."

"I could see Dean effectively taking on Michael’s warrior attributes and commanding role in the fight of good versus evil, but only as the defender of humanity, and only as a fully human man."

"Perhaps the greatest maturity he displayed in this episode came when he said no to Zachariah even when he knew his refusal would cost Bobby his legs and Sam his life. His own death was never the issue and nothing he cared about. "


Here, here!!!!

WONDERFUL! LOVED every word.